When I heard about the theft of the 'Arbeit Macht Frei' sign from Auschwitz by a mysterious band of thieves, I was genuinely shocked and saddened.
I immediately looked back at my visit there several years ago. An experience that haunts me almost every day. For the overseers and authorities who have looked after this tragic historic site, from the Soviets to the Poles today, have kept the camp in almost its exact original condition.
The punishment cells, that go deep under a certain bunker on the first of the three Auschwitz camps, are left in their sinister form. Complete with dank green slime running down the walls from the small barred windows and the horrific bricked compartments that kept prisoners penned in like sardines overnight. Even the morbid and warped wallpaper is still there. It has a grey flecked pattern, as though designed by a madman with the purpose of making the inhabitants as mad as he.
The sign is important because it has come to sybolise Auschwitz and therefore symbolise the Holocaust. Not just that, but it also symbolises the Nazi attitude and consequently, it is a reminder of Nazism and the mad, deranged nature of this lurid yet strangely alluring 'ideology' (still today many people across Europe pine for the grandfathers of National Socialism, hoping to one day resurrect Hitler's dream).
After the news sunk in, I immediately realised that such an act could only be as a result of one of two motives. The first, is that the thieves will bank on a ransom being offered for a return of the sign, knowing how much value is placed on it by various groups. The second, is that the thieves work for or are themselves, neo-Nazis. So this is one in the eye for the Jews and their co-conspirators.
Imagine my disdain and disgust when several liberal left wingers I know offered their view on the matter. For them, the sign must have been stolen in order for it to be sold as scrap metal. Yep. That's right. Thieves could have robbed a bunch of metal from some random factory on the outskirts of Krakow. But instead they went for the slightly less soft target of a highly protected and monitored historic site, offering a high risk of getting caught and roundly punished.
Amazing, is it not?
I wonder what their reaction would have been, had news broke of thieves robbing the original Uthman Qur'an? Would today's weirdo anti-Semite, dressed up as fluffy anti-Zionist, liberal lefties have shrugged in indifference at the suggestion that the motive for such a theft was to ensure a nice warm fire at the hearth this Christmas?
The tumbleweed around this news about the Auschwitz sign continues to blow down the avenues of the left wing establishment. I bet they are secretly irritated at the amount of fuss currently being made by vocal Jewish groups in Poland, not to mention the offer of much cash by the German government for the purposes of urgent repairs and restoration at the historic camp site.
Out of all the lefties I have met, a majority have shown antipathy and suspicion of Jews. They're experts at dressing it all up. 'The Israeli Lobby', they'll call those rich Jews in Washington. Or 'the Zionists', as they will call any Jew who fails to renounce their people for having the temerity to support their right to a homeland.
The liberal leftist is an expert liar, there's no doubt about that. And their reaction to the theft of the Auschwitz sign is a mere cherry pip in the cherry on the cake as far as evidence goes.
I hope they find the sign, and I hope the liberal left in Britain somehow discovers some shame. There's more chance of the first happening, which I guess is something.
Saturday, 19 December 2009
The theft of the 'Arbeit Macht Frei' sign
Posted by John Demetriou at 20:35
Labels: arbeit macht frei sign stolen, auschwitz, holocaust
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49 comments:
You have overlooked the possibility - grotesque though it may seem - that the sign was stolen to order for its value to collectors.
Not beyond the realm of possibility, though it would have to be a pretty keen collector. They wouldn't be able to sell it on, would they.
And what would they do with it, stick it above the mantelpiece in the front room?
Weird stuff.
I think it's more newsworthy than is being made out, but then again, what the hell am I saying! Joe won X-Factor and Strictly Come Dancing saw quite an unlikely winner the other day.
Priorities are important here, clearly.
Boatang & Demetriou
It appears to me (after joining) that the Libertarian Party seems to be pro Judaism from what I'm beginning to understand. And where does this "liberal lefty anti-semite" crap come from?
It is now more than anyone who cares to do any research whatsoever into Judaism/Zionism/Torah/Talmud, that an anti semite is not someone who hates Jews but someone Jews hate.
Worse still, it appears from reading some "supposedly" Libertarians on the Daily Telegraph, as well as on here that they are not Libertarians, clearly are oblivious to what liberty is and are in fact modern Liberals, ironically as they continue to attack them.
Liberty is the freedom to criticise and to take apart myth, which has been forced into the public domain as fact. That of course will include or forms of organised religion. For your information, anyone who merely criticises anything about Judaism is pilloried and stigmatised as an anti semite. The semite people are Caucasians like those in the West. Thus the Jewish people, are not any different race to us in the West. They are merely members of a cult, a very powerful cult that controls much of Western Civilisation.
If you speak for the Libertarian party and libertarianism, then sadly, it shows that Judaism has also managed to get its fingers into the pie of yet another party with which to control and find yet another organisation to rally to its cause.
What I find truly frightening about this blog, is that you, as Libertarians, apart from being utterly oblivious to its meaning, choose not to question the actual events surrounding the 2nd World War and more importantly the Holocaust. Is one of the prime beliefs of libertarianism not freedom to speak freely? What about those within society who choose to question the true events surrounding the Holocaust, who have been thrown in prison for their research? Is Libertarianism not about honestyu and finding out the truth?
Judaism has a sordid past, or should I say Zionism and the worshipers of the Talmud. It has been evicted from every country that its been to. Its people, upon the creation of Israel, formed terrorist groups such as the Irgun, with which to kill British soldiers. Judaism's privilege within society as a protected cult must be stopped, along with all others. It needs to be thoroughly questioned as Christianity has been and that also goes for Islam as well.
There is much debate on the Holocaust that needs to be brought to the public eye.
You, both of you, are clearly oblivious to what Libertarianism truly is. It is the freedom to offend, to hold differing views and this article has been one big love in with Judaism. Has the LPUK now become the mouthpiece for Zionism? Is it now to receive thousands of Jewish supporters, promoting the Israel state, the illegal Israeli state that is, found on lies?
I must be in the wrong party. I've just joined and I'm really not liking what I see. If that is you two are members.
Your post is ironic in the extreme. I have ventured a view, you don't like it, and have therefore taken against the philosophy and the LPUK as a result.
Am I, not, in turn, allowed an opinion then?
For your information, I am a lapsed member. Even if I were a fully paid up and active member of LPUK, which I am no longer, then my opinions would have beswtowed upon them the same degree of officaldom and party line as your own ideas.
This never was an 'LPUK' blog. It is the blog of Boatang and Demetriou. We say what we think and feel, based on our knowledge and experiences. Feel free to disagree.
I'll also have you know, not that you bothered to consider this before penning your aggressive and accusatory response, that the Israel/Palestine and 'Zionist' debate is probably the biggest topic that Mr Boatang and I disagree on.
Mr B has very different ideas to me on this. Hence, if you read through this blog, you'd note very different opinions being offered on the matter from us two.
As I once said to a regular contributor of ours, this blog is Boatang AND Demetriou, not Boatang IS Demetriou.
On one last point, my article was about the liberal left reaction to the theft of that sign. You post, however, rapidly expanded on this and made various bumptious assumptions about my views on the Holocaust and the status of Judaism in western society and discourse.
Fair enough. Feel free to elaborate here and make your views known.
But please get your facts straight and your assertions correct before lambasting me for being some extreme, unlibertarian, lunatic pro Zionist zealot and anti Free Speech LPUK idiot.
Look for some drunk Aussies in a campervan!! Not everything is a conspiracy
The idea that drunk Aussies cruised round Poland in a VW Camper and suddenly decided to take a right turn off to Oswiecim and spend a good hour or so at 3am unscrewing and packing away a huge fuck off sign, guarded by surveillance systems, for a laugh, is probably the most highly fetched conspiracy theory I've read so far on the matter.
J Demetriou,
What on earth are you whittering on about with I "lambasting" you? I have merely stated an opinion to your belief that those who disagree with your pro Zionist views are in fact "Liberal Lefties." It is you who holds more to the liberal lefty, I'm afraid to say.
"On one last point, my article was about the liberal left reaction to the theft of that sign. You post, however, rapidly expanded on this and made various bumptious assumptions about my views on the Holocaust and the status of Judaism in western society and discourse."
Your views, from this one article prove your pro Jewish/Zionist stance, so I merely stated what others would rightfully assume about your position. I breached on the Holocaust, becaue excuse me for saying, your blog looks like a trophy cabinet for the LPUK. Are you a Libertarian because from your views you most certainly are not one. How for example do you feel about the writings of John "the Birdman" Bryant, an exceptionally honest and true Libertarian? His views, were he alive, would of course be the extreme opposite of yours.
You are not Libertarian. I read another article about Nick Griffin and you said his "abhorrent" views on sinking refugee ships and giving them a life raft to go back to Libya. That, ironically is a libertarian act if you did not know. It would in fact be liberating the people of the UK, from having more people land on their shores to cause yet more overcrowding and promote their Islamic ideology above our secular society.
Do you not understand that liberty is the freedom to offend? How else do you propose to turn refugees who land on the UK illegally and disappear into society? If you cannot stop them en masse in a ship before it reaches the UK, how on earth do you propose to find them here? The only way of doing so would be resorting to controlled hunter squads, reminiscent of Nazi Germany and Communist Russia and of course Fascist Italy.
His comment made perfect sense. That is why you have a Navy patrolling the waters around your land, to keep unwelcome visitors out. I would not go so far as torpedoing their ship but turning them around back to Libya.
It seems from your writings you have those whom you choose to offend and those whom you choose to protect. You are sadly in your views expressed on this thread, certainly more in the Zionist camp that the non Zionist camp, brandishing those who criticise it along with all other Zionists as anti-semites. I am certainly no liberal lefty. I can assure you of that.
And last but not least, I assume you are also the same J Demetriou who posts on the Peter Hitchens' blog as well? If that is true, from all the replies you have written to Mr Hitchens, it proves once and for all that you are a Liberal and most certainly not a libertarian.
Harbinger
If you believe my article about Griffin's views on sinking ships with people on them is a) a perfect summary of my views on immigration and b) unlibertarian, then I'm afraid there is little further to discuss.
You have either deliberately selected certain things I have written in order to elaborate on and misrepresent my views, or you haven't been reading this site long enough.
You also have an odd view of libertarianism, if you think that the philosophy excuses and embraces the murder of people simply because those people want to settle abroad.
Let's try, shall we? Always worth a shot, even though I strongly suspect that whatever I write you will oppose and contradict.
Firstly, as I have forcefully said on this site many times, I am very anti-immigration, particularly mass immigration. I am against the rude and imposing nature of radical Islam (read my post on the Luton riots). I support the Swiss referendum result on the Minaret ban (Obo the Clown recently said I was unlibertarian for supporting that, though your views would seem to be in line with mine there).
I am an ardent supporter of the integrity of the nation state and the importance of libertarianism within a nation state context.
However, does this mean that I support, and believe it libertarian, to sink ships with people in them because their motive is to land on foreign soil without a passport?
Under what libertarian basis, I wonder, is it OK to murder people, out of the support for a strong border policy? (Article 2 of the European Convention of Human Rights is not the only legal foundation here.)
Did you understand Griffin's comment, or not? It seems you do not.
That you seemingly support the views of a far left authoritarian fanatic speaks volumes.
What is it that spurred you to come here and rail against my libertarian principles, or lack of them as you see fit to exclaim?
Why not be honest, and just tell me why you think I'm wrong about Jews? Backing it up with some quotes of what I have actually said, if you can.
And if I've said anything on Hitchens's site that is 'liberal', again, please feel free to back up this claim, because from what I can remember, I've only ever posted solid libertarian ideas on that site.
In your own time, 'Harbinger'.
The sign has been found at my work.
Above the bakers ovens.
"You also have an odd view of libertarianism, if you think that the philosophy excuses and embraces the murder of people simply because those people want to settle abroad."
Never said that, you did.
"Firstly, as I have forcefully said on this site many times, I am very anti-immigration, particularly mass immigration. I am against the rude and imposing nature of radical Islam (read my post on the Luton riots). I support the Swiss referendum result on the Minaret ban (Obo the Clown recently said I was unlibertarian for supporting that, though your views would seem to be in line with mine there)."
There is no "radical Islam" but simply Islam. Islam by definition is a radical and extremist ideology. It is a non libertarian ideology, that seeks to impose itself on the world and to control all under Sharia, Muhammad and Allah. Any Muslim who speaks otherwise is not a Muslim. A Muslim is one who follows the teachings of Muhammad. If they do not follow his teachings, they are not a Muhammadan, thus they are certainly not Muslim.
Ironically, what Obo the Clown states is 100% correct as the ban on anything is non Libertarian. The problem arises with Islam when you allow it into your land and give it cultural and moral relativism within. The very nature of Islam is to control and to conquer and this automatically happens when their demographic reaches a far larger size. It does not need to be a majority, just strong enough to create terror and impose their laws and rule on the rest. History teaches us about Islam. All the Islamic states, formerly Christian, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist and all other pagan faiths, show how Islam has evolved, like a cuckoo, pushing all out of their own country. So you have a choice in a Libertarian society and that is to understand that by allowing Islam in to your country, you have essentially opened the gate to the sheep pen and allowed the wolf in.
What do you do? To ban Islam would be non Libertarian. To allow Islam in would be against Libertarian policy of allowing intolerant ideologies, with their people into tolerant ones. You have a tricky dilemma here. The BNP say remove Islam and do not allow it to grow. We have fought wars throughout the last millennium (Europeans more so) against the Ottoman Turks who sought to conquer Europe for Islam. We turned our backs on the Serbians and allowed the first Isalmic state to be created in Kosovo and yet throughout history their ancestors were on the front lines of the Islamic Jihad.
We're stuck with Islam and history will unfold within our society yet again. Our future oppressors are living and growing right next to us and anyone who speaks out against them, is immediately pilloried and castigated from society, branded an Islamaphobe, even though history and current day has proven to all that there is certainly nothing irrational about people's fears of the Muhammadan cult.
"I am an ardent supporter of the integrity of the nation state and the importance of libertarianism within a nation state context."
(cont'd)
I too am the same, but we no longer have a Nation state. Our country is a mere vassal of the European Union and belongs to Brussels. It will be an almost impossible task to remove ourselves from the rule of Brussels and void the Lisbon treaty. Therefore the people of the UK will soon understand when Brussels inflicts 108,000 laws upon us, that will create chaos within society. The Nation state is dead. We have been subverted by Communism. The fall of the U.S.S.R was merely a smokescreen as it changed its battle plan of hegemony.
"However, does this mean that I support, and believe it libertarian, to sink ships with people in them because their motive is to land on foreign soil without a passport?"
That's not the underlying point that Nick Griffin was making. What do you do when people are openly abusing entrance to another country? Where do you draw the line? How do you stop immigrants coming into the country illegally unless you stop the source. You know full well that he did not imply murder. He would torpedo the boat after the ship was boarded and send them back to Libya in their lifeboats. If you want a Nation state, how on earth do you propse to have a Nation filled with people of other Nations that want their Nation in place of yours? You know full well that a boatload of refugees from Somalia/N.Africa's ultimate goal is to transform the UK into an Islamist state. Do you really think that Muslims, who are taught from a young age that there is only one law, Allah's law and women are half that of a man, they're going to revert to British Culture and western libertarian philosophy upon arrival here? The passengers on these boats would disappear into London, Luton, Leeds, Bradford and Birmingham, to be swallowed up in the concrete jungles turning into Islamic Ghettos.
"Did you understand Griffin's comment, or not? It seems you do not.
That you seemingly support the views of a far left authoritarian fanatic speaks volumes."
As you can see, I fully understood them. More so, I'm a libertarian, I support freedom of speech and his right to espouse his views. Like it or not his views were supported by over 1million people at the last EU elections. His support will grow the more Indigenous Britons are pushed to one side in favour of minorities. Now as well that they have open membership, you will also see ethnics supporting them as well, especially Hindus, Sikhs and Apostates terrified at the thought of an Islamic UK.
I support common sense Mr Dimitriou. I support the simple reality that the Muslim population of the UK is growing at an exponential rate. I support the fact that the European Muslim population of under 15's in 50 years time will be the overwhelming majority. That means that Europe will be predominately Muslim either in 50 years or within another generation. You miss much of what Nick Griffin is saying. He is certainly a Harbinger of doom. He is wanting to stop any future nightmare scenario and civil war from erupting by making sure that the Indigenous people are not abused any longer by the minorities and people in charge, the politicians, the liberals and the left wing.
(cont'd)
"What is it that spurred you to come here and rail against my libertarian principles, or lack of them as you see fit to exclaim?"
Your principles are not Libertarian. They are more liberal, than libertarian. And are you against freedom of speech? Your above quote certainly swings that way, or do I need permission to post on your blog?
"Why not be honest, and just tell me why you think I'm wrong about Jews? Backing it up with some quotes of what I have actually said, if you can."
I'm honest in everything I do. Your belief seems very much to be that an anti semite is somoewone who criticises and asks questions about organised Jewry. There is much to read about it. However, we will not see this in our papers, as it's controlled by Zionists. The American and British Media, both Film, TV and Radio is controlled by Zionism as are our banking systems as well.
"And if I've said anything on Hitchens's site that is 'liberal', again, please feel free to back up this claim, because from what I can remember, I've only ever posted solid libertarian ideas on that site."
I'm not going to trawl back through your postings on Hitchens' blogs. I have better things to do. You do not see that you do not hold Libertarian views. You may think you do but you do not. Anyone who understands libertarianism would know this. For example, if I directed you to the website of the late John "the birdman" Bryant (google it) what would you feel about his writings? Would you classify him as a Libertarian, a racist and an anti semite? I would be interested in your views. I think your views are somewhat confused and muddled. As I said, I picture your views far more in the Anarchic Liberal, than Anarchic Libertarian.
Libertarianism, to me is merely a stone throw from Anarchy and Conservatism. It is certainly a centrist ideology, but leaning more to the right than to the left.
5 young men arrested for nicking the sign. No word whether they were drunk aussies or had a campervan..
It was cut into 3 pieces apparently, and the arrests were made in Poland. That's all I know so far from being awake at daft o'clock and watching Sky News.
Harbinger, do you seriously believe - for one minute - that the media in this country is pro-Israel? If so, then you're delusional.
Unless you have proof of Zionist control of the press and if so, uh...I dunno; maybe they're just spreading a cunningly subtle message, or something. We can't put anything beyond those Eeevil Jooos(!!!), after all, can we?
Rob Farrington said...
Do you know anything about the Talmud? Do you know anything about Jewish history? Do you know anything about Zionism? Instead, it's typical response from ignoramuses with their "evil joos" and "antisemite" slurs.
If you know anything about Judaism and more importantly Zionism then by all means speak, but I have a feeling you know nothing sadly.
"There is no "radical Islam" but simply Islam."
What? I have definitely met moderate muslims that have not been denounced by their fellow muslims/mosque.
From what I read, it seems you have a dislike for Judaism and jews. You seem to base this on Bryants writing. You cannot imply that you have to agree with this to be a libertarian.
"Mr Wallis said..."
"What? I have definitely met moderate muslims that have not been denounced by their fellow muslims/mosque."
There's one thing that frustrates me when discussing things with people and that is people, who mean well in what they say but are simply utterly ignorant about the subject matter.
It's really quite simple regarding Islam. You either follow the teachings of Muhammad, who created Islam and the Qur'an, or you don't. To be a Muhammadan, you have to believe in the law of Sharia, that women are half that of man, that democratic society and man made law is against the Islamic faith, and that Jihad and Islamic domination of the World is the sole priority of Muslims, that is after worship of Allah.
If you disagree in any of the above "as a Muslim" then you are in fact an infidel in the eyes of Islam, that is according to Muhammadans, the true followers and believers of Islam and not in fact a Muslim.
There is also option 2 in that you are merely practicing taqiyya (sanctioned) deceit as permitted by Muhammad. This is also in the Qur'an.
It's high time the Western world realised that Islam is no friend of it, never has been and never will be.
Should people try to rewrite Islam and make it into a peaceful ideology then it would mean removing pretty much all of Muhammad's teachings. Thus, like someone who decides to change all the rules of football to that of a Rugby, you have created an altogether different game, that can no longer be called football, as they're two completely different sports.
As regards to Judaism, it appears you know as much about that as you do Islam.
I hate to sound rude, but you are utterly oblivious to what Islam actually is. You've listened to the perpetual bullshit promotion of it, by the media and governments, just so they can secure lucrative oil deals with the Saudi Arabians, whom incidentally are responsible for the rapid growth of Islam throughout Europe, the building of Mosques and madrassas, the promotion of the burka and other oppressiveness upon women and ironically pumping the UK and the West full of Wahabism, reformed Islam, as was taught by Muhammad in the 7th Century. So it means that the government is allowing our troops in Afghanistan to fight the same ideology that they are allowing to be pumped into the UK by their "friends" the Saudis, whom I will also add, 15 of the 19 plane hijackers came from their country, that is if you actually believe Muslims planned the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks.
So you see, I really do not mind discussing this with people who know, but I really have no intention of discussing it with people who haven't the slightest inkling of the full story, instead choosing to read the propaganda in the daily rags, the media now push off as news.
When you've read the Qur'an and the hadith and much of Islamic history then we'll debate. Until that time, I suggest you educate yourself on something that poses a serious danger to everyone's liberty, instead of trying to stumble through something you're clearly oblivious too.
Ignorance is rife within the UK, because people have lost their common sense and logic not forgetting freedom to debate and offend if needs be. Emotion has taken over from the aforementioned sadly and this is the picture of incredibly stupid UK.
Also, have a look at this link and see what you think, especially the very fact that Ed Balls allows Haringey Council to fund this anti British/Western rubbish:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/6798250/When-tolerance-is-taken-too-far.html
That is Islam. That is the true face of Islam, not the happy faith that's just like Christianity except with Mosques and Qur'ans instead of Churches and Bibles.
Islam has been the oldest enemy of the West and the free world. The Muhammadan faith is a cult, an oppressive cult, created by a madman, who was a robber, a torturer, a rapist, a paedophile, a mass murderer and a totalitarian warlord. Don't believe me? Read the Qur'an and hadith. There are also lots of books now being written about Islam and Muhammad. You'll also, should you choose to educate yourself on the matter, find out interesting things about the Sub Saharan Islamic slave trade that was responsible for taking almost thirteen times more Africans than the West ever did. That's some 130 million, compared to the 11 million of the Western powers. And why is our slave trade promoted and not theirs, that is with us as the big bad boogeyman?
I shall indeed research into Islam and some of the history that you have mentioned, thank you for encouraging my interest.
However I still believe that not all "muslims" (they may call themselves, even if not so according to the teachings of Muhammad) are our enemy.
Say that your premise is correct (which I believe that it may be, to one degree or another), the teachings of Islam, and Muslims are the enemy of the West and the free. What do you suggest, as a realistic way of solving the 'problem'?
Another point, what are your feelings on Scientology? (I can see some very vague parallels in terms of the oppressive cult).
Mr Wallis,
"However I still believe that not all "muslims" (they may call themselves, even if not so according to the teachings of Muhammad) are our enemy."
To use the analogy again as I did in the previous post, could I call myself an American football payer if I'd never played it and instead played rugby? One calls themself what one does, if that person does what one says they do. Correct or not correct?
I feel in the UK we have the following:
1. True Muslims who follow the teachings of Muhammad. These are the Anjem Choudarys, the Abu Izzadeens, the Abu Qatadas, the Abu Hamzas etc etc.
2. People who are born Muslims, who do not really follow Muslims, but do not leave Islam for fear of being ostracised from society and worse death sentences imposed upon them. Remember that the government has now allowed Sharia Law Courts to operate legally within the UK.
3. Muslims, as in point 1, who aren't as vociferous in their beliefs. They are the ones who pretend to be British and accept opur culture but are part of the overall plan of Islamisation, using Muhammad allowed taqiyya in order to deceive society into believing that Muslims are their friends and no different to Christians.
(cont'd)
"Say that your premise is correct (which I believe that it may be, to one degree or another), the teachings of Islam, and Muslims are the enemy of the West and the free. What do you suggest, as a realistic way of solving the 'problem'?"
Well, there is no solution that would be viewed as Libertarian, I'm afraid to say.
For example:
By removing Muslims, knocking down Mosques and Madrassas, banning worship of Islam and expelling them from the UK is non Libertarian. It will also create anger from Muslims worldwide. Now that Pakistan is on the possible verge of Islamism and Iran nearing Nuclear weapons, expect retaliation from them for insulting their religion if the aforementioned was done.
Then of course if we do nothing, allow Islam to grow as it is, it won't be long (50 years to be precise) before all under 15's in the whole of Europe will be Muslim. Thus it means in either 50 or at least within another generation, Islam will have majority power, voting for Islamic parties with which to Islamise their collective countries.
Bottom line, we've let Islam in and it will either go one of two ways - Islamisation or all out civil war. This will of course all happen after the EU has crumbled about 25 years into the present future (EU collapse that is).
However if I were to recall the words of John the Birdman Bryant on Libertarianism see this URL on Smart and Stupid Libertarians - http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Lbtn/Lbtn-Smart&StupidLibertarians.html
"In contrast to smart libertarians are those whom I call "stupid libertarians", altho there are probably other designations they would more likely approve of, such as anarchists, anarcho-capitalists, or natural law libertarians. The reason for my designation is that these folks believe a number of quite stupid propositions, including the following:
....The premier 'natural right' is that of self-ownership, which reduces to the proposition that no one can 'force' another to do anything against his will. More particularly, any use of 'force' against others, except to counter another's hostile use of 'force', is wrong."
John Bryant says on the above use of force --> "The concept of 'force' is incoherent, and hence the attempt to forbid the use of 'force' unless it is first used against you is also incoherent. For example, one can use lies, illusions or other stratagems to 'force' someone to do something he would otherwise never do; and while such an act would not be judged as 'using force' by stupid libertarians, it is nonetheless unethical. But even in the sense of 'force' as physical force, stupid libertarians are still wrong in forbidding first use: if you know someone is planning to kill you, but they haven't yet struck a blow, you are perfectly justified in using force to keep your enemy from carrying out his plans."
I think the above explains what must be done. If we see Islam as a threat to our society then we remove it, peacefully. That is revoke passports and repatriate them to their ancestral land. Islamisation is inevitable as Islam grows. They've played the same game throughout history. I call it the "Cuckoo move."
(cont'd)
Mr Wallis said...
"Another point, what are your feelings on Scientology? (I can see some very vague parallels in terms of the oppressive cult)."
All religions and belief systems start off as cults then evolve into religions, the more people believe in them. Thus Scientology will obtain religion status in the future, along with those who believe they're Jedis.
My feelings on Scientology is that it is like all other religions, there to make someone at the top lots of money. After all writer Sam Moskowitz reported in an affidavit that during an Eastern Science Fiction Association meeting on November 11, 1948, Hubbard had said "You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion." So there's your answer. I'm still to this day trying to understand how on earth people can be scientologists. I'm simply amazed that celebrities in the USA, famous filmstars belong to this and they're worse still, taken seriously by the American public and looked upon as celebrities. John Travolta's a loon, along with all the other Scientologists. That's my opinion of them.
You'll find this link interesting on Islam and cult similarity:
http://www.hissheep.org/islam/islam_cult_or_religion.html
Mr Wallis,
Finally I will leave you with a warning from the words of Nietzsche:
"If you stare into the Abyss long enough the Abyss stares back at you."
There is much out there, that many people are utterly oblivious too. I went on a long journey to find out about Islam and Judaism and I did stare into the Abyss and it did stare back. It's not a nice feeling, I can assure you, but one that had to be done.
I am unable to do anything to stop the destruction of the UK as it is coming. I stated in previous articles that knowledge is our only defence against tyranny, ignorance its ally. Be careful on how you deal with the information you may find. It is not for all minds to look at as some are unable to accept that their education in life has been one big lie.
The further you dig, the deeper you go the worse it will get. I've been there, I had to and I don't recommend it. However, if you are to defeat your enemy you must first understand it, hence why our society is blatantly ignorant fed on a diet of propaganda sport and celebrity.
Bread and Circuses.
All I'm wondering is why Harbinger joined the LPUK when he should have joined the BNP.
That's all, really.
J Demetriou said...
"All I'm wondering is why Harbinger joined the LPUK when he should have joined the BNP."
What part of I disagree with the Socialist policies of the BNP do you not understand?
This is actually quite laughable. because you disagree with my views and because I happen to respect any political party that should choose to espouse its views, you decide I should have supported the BNP?
It proves once and for all that you are in fact a Liberal and not in fact a Libertarian. You are obviously oblivious to what Libertarianism is, but like to fob yourself off as one.
I disagree in state control. However what I agree on vehemently is people given any means necessary with which to defend themselves, their families and their cultures and traditions...and land!
What are your views on that Mr Dimitriou? Do you believe that Britain should continue importing unskilled, 3rd world immigrants into society? Do you think Britain should become an Islamic state? Bang goes your liberty then eh? However I'm getting the feeling you "don't want to offend" anyone eh?
I speak openly and bluntly in my views. I don't hold any punches and better still, I'd cottoned on to Islam and the problems of it in the West, long before the BNP jumped on the bandwagon, I'm afraid to say. However, safe to say they are the only party who are taking an active stance against them. It also proves as well that you are no doubt utterly oblivious to the dangers of them in the West.
Yes, it was certainly a choice between the BNP or the Libertarian Party for me, I'm honest and I won't deny that one bit. I respect wholeheartedly what my ancestors did so I could be free. The other parties don't but the BNP do. They and the LPUK are the only party that would immediately remove them from Afghanistan. Sure the Liberals would to, but they never agreed in Iraq and Afghanistan, because they didn't want to upset the Muslims, their future voters.
Dimitriou, you're a Liberal, not a libertarian. Like I said, your replies to Hitchens are there for all to see and anyone with half a brain can see where your political ideologies lie. Are you a mole in the LPUK? Are you seeking to impose hegemony within, to liberalise them? One wonders.....
So you keep repeating, Harbinger.
I made that comment due to your fawning and nauseating apologia regarding Griffin and his rabble outfit. And also your disturbing comments about the Holocaust. Something you appear to question, without having the guts to expand or offer alternative evidence.
If I was a 'liberal', as you seem to keen to assert, then you might like to offer a smidgen of evidence towards proving this allegation. Which obviously isn't true, and any real liberal would spit on me and this site given half a chance.
Get your own blog, Harbinger. It seems I am too libertarian, oh, sorry...'liberal', in tolerating your abuse of our hospitality here.
All you do is pop up and offer rude comments and derogatory forms of ad hominem attack.
J Demetriou said...
I pop up and speak truth and reality Mr Dimitriou. All you do is fart on and on and on about the usual Liberal drivel we'd expect from the main 3 political parties.
Do you not realise that the Holocaust is without a doubt a discussion well over due? The facts surrounding the holocaust, that speak of continued false preaching in our history books are great.
The very fact that they imprison men in Germany and Austria for trying to actively engage in Holocaust debate after giving their findings to prove that the history of the Holocaust is nothing but lie upon lie with which to fund the illegal state of Israel, is truly amazing. After all Libertarians believe in honest open debate on everything and certainly not imprisoning people for freedom of speech, or do you differ?
Have you never heard the poignant saying by John Bryant?
"The reason men are silenced is not because they speak falsely, but because they speak the truth. This is because if men speak falsehoods, their own words can be used against them; while if they speak truly, there is nothing which can be used against them -- except force."
So you see, as soon as anyone pops up to criticise Judaism, i.e. engage in open debate, out comes the "anti semite slur" first. Should that person then choose to question the holocaust with evidence then out comes the "Holocaust denier."
In fact Mr Demetriou, one of my favourite journalists, Mr Kevin Myers of the Irish Independent and Belfast Telegraph (I believe) wrote a phenomenal article on the holocaust.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/im-a-holocaust-denier-but-i-also-believe-the-nazis-planned-the-extermination-of-the-jewish-people-1660201.html
American Jews such as Norman Finkelstein have some incredibly interesting things to say on the Holocaust also.
Bottom line Mr Dimitriou - you are nothing more than a Liberal, posing as a Libertarian. You have no Libertarian views I can see and certainly want to quosh people who have a far different opinion to you. Were you an honest man, you'd want to see the truth about Judaism and much within society, but instead your education and perceived perceptive, helped mostly by media propaganda clouds your judgement, not just on these issues but on quite a few I've happened to peruse on your website.
You wouldn't know what Libertarianism was if you came in and found it burgling your house, mask off, with "I'm a Libertarian" emblazened on the back of the thief.
You should hurry along and join the Liberals. They could do with men such as you to promote your liberal, anti libertarian and anti freedom rhetoric.
You've given me an overwhelming laugh though. More so, your arguments are easier to rip apart than a sheet of rice paper, I'm afraid to say.
You are unable to have any stance on Judaism, for you know no other argument, other than the happy clappy Liberal version, promoted in schools and colleges since WW2.
To finish, why would they imprison anyone, sully and lambaste anyone who should choose to bring about public debate on the Holocaust? I thought witch burning was a medieval atrocity? It appears that Holocaust revisionists have become the new witches.
Moreso, by telling me not to post on this website is just OH SO LIBERTARIAN OF you! LMAO
P.S. I truly hope you're just a member of the LPUK. If you are actually involved in the running of it, then heaven help the true libertarians within.
Hey John,
Have a look at this from Norman Finkelstein's website on the Holocaust Industry:
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/finkelstein-on-the-nazi-holocaust/
Even better read some of his books. Hey guess what, he's Jewish, amazing eh? All this anti semitism from a Jew? Is that not an oxymoron?
Have I banned you? No.
Have I said you can't post about the Holocaust? No.
Have I asked you to properly explain your position on the Holocaust and Judaism? Yes.
Yet you fail to do so. All we see is innuendo and insinuation, and hint, but nothing by way of fact or opinion. I'm not interested in being pointed in the direction of someone who may or may not have something alternative to say about something.
I can do that in my own time. What would be refreshing, is if you got your lazy arse in gear and wrote about what you think about the Holocaust. Please, feel free, be my guest.
If you think there has been false preaching or whatever it is, explain how and why, and what the false preaching is, and what the facts are that contradict the evidence supporting the Holocaust.
As anyone will see, flicking through this comments section, all you do is offer insults and mindless, stupid attacks without offering anything by way of interesting comment or fact.
You're also obsessed with calling me a liberal.
I have repeatedly asked you to back up this claim, offering facts or logic, and all you do is come back and repeat the same garbage: 'you are a liberal, not a libertarian'.
Brilliant.
Well, 'Harbinger', feel free to post away, but until such time as you offer anything vaguely worth responding to, I'll ignore you, because as far as I can see, you are a rude, ignorant fool with a staggering lack of manners and an inability to answer to challenges in debate.
"Even better read some of his books. Hey guess what, he's Jewish, amazing eh? All this anti semitism from a Jew? Is that not an oxymoron?"
Nationality or identity is irrelevant. It makes no difference what he is, it's the content of a man's views that counts. The fact he is Jewish doesn't give any more weight to his argument.
The LPUK must love having a racial obsessive like you on board. Lovely stuff.
"I'll ignore you, because as far as I can see, you are a rude, ignorant fool with a staggering lack of manners and an inability to answer to challenges in debate."
And point out where I've been rude? Oh, calling you a liberal is rude and calling you ignorant (lack of knowledge made clear) also makes me rude? Oh forgive me, I'll have to debate astro physics with a 4 year old and certainly not call her ignorant.
"The LPUK must love having a racial obsessive like you on board."
So because I believe that whomever a man/woman should decide to associate themselves with and not, that makes me a racial obsessive? Please explain? More so, the Jews are not a race. Judaism is a religion. Anti Semites are, believe it or not Caucasians as well, ironically. So I'm interested, explain racial obsessive.
Ok then, let's get the holocaust debate started off then shall we?
The figure of 6 million Jews is a myth. The nazis never exterminated 6 million Jews in the concentration camps. They killed far more allied troops in WW2 than they did Jews, so why the Holocaust? I'll give you a clue, it's all to do with Zionism. Did you know that? More so, the figure of 6 million comes straight from the Torah "The Jews shall only return to Israel minus 6million."
And as to dicussing the Holocaust, do yo think I'm mad? Do you really think I want to get locked up for criticising Judaism and offering a differing viewpoint to the Holocaust? After all the "toxic two" are spending time in prison in the USA for espousing their "anti semitic" views, arrested for fleeing imprisonment in the UK for their "anti semitic" and "racist" views, supposedly in two countries that allow freedom of speech!
However, just so you know where I'm going, why not have a read here about reasons why the Holocaust isn't the story we've all been spoon fed to believe:
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews/Jews-TheHolocaustIsABigJewishLie.html
You'll find it interesting. If you have an open mind you may even decide to actually question the western beliefs, pumped to all of us by the Zionist controlled media and take an alternative stance on what we've been told. But if you do, in your revision expect to be called an anti semite and a holocaust denier. However, I feel you won't, for the reason that you've too much to lose, if that is you're politically involved in anyway in life. Questioning the Holocaust and Judaism, certainly will turn you into an outcast within society.
Right, so the total amount of evidence you have that turns over accepted wisdom re: the Holocaust is.....
....precisely fuck all.
Thanks. I can now happily ignore your weirdo arse without every having to wonder whether you had anything interesting to offer after all.
Love how you reckon they came up with the 6 mill figure btw. Population before and after estimates won't have mattered then.
Bye bye.
J Dimitriou,
Like I said I'm not even going into a debate on the Holocaust as society now is moving down a totalitarian route and I really don't want to be imprisoned for my speech, because it happens to disagree with the Zionist controlled media.
As I said the evidence against the Holocaust, not forgetting 9/11 and 7/7 is overwhelming, but it will never come to light, as ironically, you'll find, with the latter two, it all goes right back to Organised Jewry and more importantly, Zionism and Israel.
And for your information, population estimates before and after WW2 showed that the decrease in the Jewish population was a matter of hundreds of thousands, not millions. You'll find the following link interesting:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/5.html
Look on any pro Jewish website and you'll see "6 million die. Population of European Jews falls from 17million to 11 million at the time of WW2....." More zionist propaganda from the zionist media.
How about here:
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-holocaust-lies-hoax-frauds-blackflagops-hoaxarchive.html
Sure the above site is anti Zionist, but it throws out some very interesting facts, especially from old population almanacs, which no doubt the Zionists in control are desperately trying to make disappear, or rewrite, doing the same job Winston Smith did, working in the Ministry of Truth, changing history to fit in with the present.
Bottom line J.Dimitriou, you're way out of your league, for the simple reason that you've bought the lie, the greatest lie ever told. A lie created for the sole purpose to fund and create the Israeli state, using biblical prophecies to rightfully allow them to do what they so choose!
If you can find some evidence relating to this debate (I'm providing links) then by all means feel free, for at the moment all your doing is blowing hot air like a wind bag, with no substance whatsoever.
P.S.
If you're going to write a public blog, then expect to be publicly ridiculed for your beliefs.
Libertarian...my arse! LOL
Harbringer, you are obviously an idiot and are incapable of drawing up a decent argument without referring to figures made up by strange birdmen and tin-foil-hat wearing nutters who believe big-nosed Jews are controlling the world.
Grow up.
And as for your constant cries of, "You're a liberal", "You don't know what libertarianism is" - would you care to define libertarianism?
I'm afraid this "Birdman" figure is exactly the kind of stereotypical 'libertarian' that we can do without. That is, some idiot conspiracy theorist who runs an amatuer website, and bases their dislike of the government on stupid statements such as "OMFG, JEWS WANT TO CONTROL MY LIEF! THEY CONTROL THE MEEDIA!!!!!1111", rather than the dislike of the government that real libertarianism bases itself on.
As for your statement that the Torah says "The Jews shall only return to Israel minus 6 million", coming from someone who has actually read the Torah, this is bullshit. And just to double-check I wasn't reading a Torah produced by the Zionist publishing companies, I Googled it. Yeah. Go on, try Googling "The Jews shall only return to Israel minus 6 million." The first hit you will get is Birdman's site. What a surprise. I guess that's because Google is controlled by Jews, right?
I strongly suggest you leave LPUK. You are not the kind of person we need.
Just one more thing - you seem to have it drilled into your brain that to be a libertarian means to never speak out against the views of others, as you seem to call JD an "anti-libertarian" and a "liberal" for calling Griffin's views abhorrent. The libertarian position would be that Griffin is allowed to say what he wants, however offensive, and that anyone (in this case JD) can criticise him for it. Griffin's views are abhorrent, coming from a libertarian (me), although I believe he should be allowed to voice his views, and I also believe that I should be allowed to criticise his views.
P.S - http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/debatebryant.html
It's funny how Birdman used to attack his opponents by calling them "liberals" too.
JP,
I did actually write a long reply to your rant and then decided, waste of time. Sadly you are oblivious to your liberal views I'm afraid.
Dear dear, you are so mistaken it's upsetting, quite frankly.
Also, well done B&D for attracting the troll! :D
I'd quite like to see your comments Harbinger, that way JD and I can smash your argument into pieces even more - IMAGINE THAT!!
i heard there was a leaked version of the movie plz post an answer if u know where i can watch it online
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