No one else is going to say this, so it comes down to the greatness of B&D.
There is a totally bullshit campaign doing the rounds, led by the Mail but including pretty much every rag out there, that poor Gary McKinnon shouldn't be sent off to America. Oh woe, poor fucking Gary.
He is just a poor lad (aged 43) that got a bit caught up in looking for little green men one day and, all of a sudden like, hacked into the United States' secure network. Whoops!
Sorry, but he just didn't.
First off, let's just clarify here what this guy did. Between 2001 and 2002 (keep in mind those dates, you may remember the sightly heightened state of panic America was going through at the time) Gary from North London hacked into 97 NASA and Pentagon computers. Ninety-seven. Not one, nearly a hundred. Over a sustained period. That is known as systemic hacking to anyone who cares to look at the facts of the matter.
The crime was described by the US as:
All this is ignored by his supporters. They will pull out the corker in their hatbox and remind you that he has Aspergers. Or as the Mail and others prefer to refer to it as, autism, mainly because it makes it sound like he spends all day drawing perfect charcoals of Tower Bridge. This isn't helped by him no longer giving any interviews.
Aspergers? Hmmm, really? As I said McKinnon is 43. Guess when he was 'diagnosed'? Yup, last year. Which coincided very nicely with his appeal hearing. His diagnosis was made in August 2008 by Professor Simon Baron-Cohen. Not when he was 10, or as a teenager, not even shortly after being charged with hacking. In fact, not even when America sought extradition. No he was diagnosed a full two years after America declared they wanted him. I'm not a doubter of the autistic spectrum, but there is no doubt that it also goes to quite a large area.
Sorry, not an excuse in any case and certainly not so late in the day.
All of this just smacks of desperation not to be prosecuted, as does the relentless campaigning by his mother and various musicians.
So he is guilty as sin. What about the morality of the treaty? Well it is one sided there is no doubt, but let's put a couple of spins on this.
First off scenario one. Gary McKinnon is in fact being sought by America because for two years he has groomed children and had them him send naked pictures of themselves. Would anyone at all, let alone the Mail, disagree with his extradition? No.
Okay, number two. Gary McKinnon has a Aspergers but is also Muslim. During a period, 2001-2002, of intense security following Islamist terrorist campaigns resulting in 9/11, Gary hacked into NASA, the USAF, the US Army and the US Navy and deleted a series of files and declared openly that this was only the beginning. Anyone have a problem with the extradition? No.
Last one, number three. The hacking was actually committed by a man known as Omar from Cairo who hacked into GCHQ and the MoD systems and accessed top secret files. His extradition from Egypt to the UK is being held up because his Mum claims he has a form of autism. How would people, more so the Mail, feel about that? Hang him from a tree would be the call.
The British court system, and the state itself, have a duty to protect our citizens from foreign powers, but in return our citizens have a duty not to commit massive criminal acts against those foreign powers.
Gary McKinnon knew exactly what he was doing, did so for a long period of time and openly declared the fact. When he was caught, he pleaded innocence and started a publicity campaign. When the United States requested his extradition in 2006, he upped this to a crescendo and two years later declaredhe had Aspergers and as such a mental illness that he could not possibly stand trail in America. Even now we have claims that he has been diagnosed as having a compulsion to kill himself if he is sent there.
Claims of Camp X-ray, of 70 year prison terms, even the death penalty have been put forward by his family and his legal team, whereas the reality is that he is likely to be sent down for a year and then given a job.
Gary McKinnon is not going to prison for 70 years. Going to Guantanamo is simply not on the cards. He is however, up to his neck in guilt and in any other situation it would be straight forward. The fact America is involved, that a slightly one sided treaty was signed and that he then 'discovered' he had Aspergers has completely clouded the fact that this man committed, knowingly and over a long period of time, a serious criminal act upon a sovereign nation.
It makes me very cynical, in fact I await the book launch in the coming years. Let America have him and if he is oh so inncent then he can prove it in a court of law in fornt of the people he did it to.
There is a totally bullshit campaign doing the rounds, led by the Mail but including pretty much every rag out there, that poor Gary McKinnon shouldn't be sent off to America. Oh woe, poor fucking Gary.
He is just a poor lad (aged 43) that got a bit caught up in looking for little green men one day and, all of a sudden like, hacked into the United States' secure network. Whoops!
Sorry, but he just didn't.
First off, let's just clarify here what this guy did. Between 2001 and 2002 (keep in mind those dates, you may remember the sightly heightened state of panic America was going through at the time) Gary from North London hacked into 97 NASA and Pentagon computers. Ninety-seven. Not one, nearly a hundred. Over a sustained period. That is known as systemic hacking to anyone who cares to look at the facts of the matter.
The crime was described by the US as:
He deleted critical files from operating systems, which shut down the US Army’s Military District of Washington network of 2,000 computers for 24 hours, as well as deleting US Navy Weapons logs, rendering a naval base's network of 300 computers inoperable after the September 11th terrorist attacks. They claim the cost of tracking and correcting the problems he caused was $700,000.Ah, bless him. You may think that this is possibly slightly over-egged, and it maybe is. But this is a quote the Mail will ever publish, posted by McKinnon himself on a site during the attacks:
US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days? It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand-down on September 11 last year...I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels.Kind of harms the guy's defence that he was innocently blundering through for UFOs, using the propaganda of living with his Mummy to suggest it was all in his bedroom. If you aren't aware, the guy works as a systems administrator.
All this is ignored by his supporters. They will pull out the corker in their hatbox and remind you that he has Aspergers. Or as the Mail and others prefer to refer to it as, autism, mainly because it makes it sound like he spends all day drawing perfect charcoals of Tower Bridge. This isn't helped by him no longer giving any interviews.

Aspergers? Hmmm, really? As I said McKinnon is 43. Guess when he was 'diagnosed'? Yup, last year. Which coincided very nicely with his appeal hearing. His diagnosis was made in August 2008 by Professor Simon Baron-Cohen. Not when he was 10, or as a teenager, not even shortly after being charged with hacking. In fact, not even when America sought extradition. No he was diagnosed a full two years after America declared they wanted him. I'm not a doubter of the autistic spectrum, but there is no doubt that it also goes to quite a large area.
Sorry, not an excuse in any case and certainly not so late in the day.
All of this just smacks of desperation not to be prosecuted, as does the relentless campaigning by his mother and various musicians.
So he is guilty as sin. What about the morality of the treaty? Well it is one sided there is no doubt, but let's put a couple of spins on this.
First off scenario one. Gary McKinnon is in fact being sought by America because for two years he has groomed children and had them him send naked pictures of themselves. Would anyone at all, let alone the Mail, disagree with his extradition? No.
Okay, number two. Gary McKinnon has a Aspergers but is also Muslim. During a period, 2001-2002, of intense security following Islamist terrorist campaigns resulting in 9/11, Gary hacked into NASA, the USAF, the US Army and the US Navy and deleted a series of files and declared openly that this was only the beginning. Anyone have a problem with the extradition? No.
Last one, number three. The hacking was actually committed by a man known as Omar from Cairo who hacked into GCHQ and the MoD systems and accessed top secret files. His extradition from Egypt to the UK is being held up because his Mum claims he has a form of autism. How would people, more so the Mail, feel about that? Hang him from a tree would be the call.
The British court system, and the state itself, have a duty to protect our citizens from foreign powers, but in return our citizens have a duty not to commit massive criminal acts against those foreign powers.
Gary McKinnon knew exactly what he was doing, did so for a long period of time and openly declared the fact. When he was caught, he pleaded innocence and started a publicity campaign. When the United States requested his extradition in 2006, he upped this to a crescendo and two years later declaredhe had Aspergers and as such a mental illness that he could not possibly stand trail in America. Even now we have claims that he has been diagnosed as having a compulsion to kill himself if he is sent there.
Claims of Camp X-ray, of 70 year prison terms, even the death penalty have been put forward by his family and his legal team, whereas the reality is that he is likely to be sent down for a year and then given a job.
Gary McKinnon is not going to prison for 70 years. Going to Guantanamo is simply not on the cards. He is however, up to his neck in guilt and in any other situation it would be straight forward. The fact America is involved, that a slightly one sided treaty was signed and that he then 'discovered' he had Aspergers has completely clouded the fact that this man committed, knowingly and over a long period of time, a serious criminal act upon a sovereign nation.
It makes me very cynical, in fact I await the book launch in the coming years. Let America have him and if he is oh so inncent then he can prove it in a court of law in fornt of the people he did it to.










20 comments:
I have some terrible, terrible news for you: a) I've said from the outset that he should be extradited and b) even Tom Harris has beaten you to the punch. :o)
Ok.. but isn't that extradition treaty extremely one-sided? As in a one-way street? While I can't disagree with most of what you wrote it seems that this is something that should be changed.
But Obo, do people really take what you and Bottle and Glass have to take seriously?
Boaty & D have the real shit going on here, pal.
*that should read 'say' not take. Long day.
Oh no, oh shit, not harris! oh fuck what to do. And a whole 24 hours after you added him to your blog roll, then announced tht you had, and now on here sucking him off. Tell me Obo, are you sucking him off?
And of course, you said all this back in 2006, so it's all old news really. Of course you've only been sticking in Harris' arse since yesterday, but you've been a leading fucking light on the McKinnon issue for over three years.
Most people have a problem with the potential 65 year sentence which is on offer if he's sent to the States. Extradition would leave him at the mercy of zealous American prosecutors; at least if he was prosecuted in Britain he’d be more likely to get a fair, possibly lenient, sentence. The saga hasn’t been aided whatsoever by the behaviour of the plethora of Home Secretaries who are clearly unaware of their own powers, or refuse to take any responsibility in making a decision. Their behaviour alone has been an affront to this great office.
As for your scenarios, every case turns on its own facts. They do nothing to clarify the point you’re trying to make. Methinks you have a problem with the Daily Mail’s (I admit, posturing) backing of the campaign rather than actually having a problem with this McKinnon fella.
And besides gents- if it reaches the European Court of Human Rights- they’ll grant the appeal so quickly it’ll make your fucking head spin.
The mail issue is one point, but it is not the issue.
McKinnon committed a serious crime and he was told at the outset that if he pleaded guilty he would get no more than 36 months in the States, he didn't. He has clearly committed a crime but wants to be tried here, whereas I, and John, both feel that he should be tried where he committed the crime.
Examples. What I have said by using them is that if the boot were on the other foot, no one would have any issue with extradition. They do quite clearly say that, in English words.
McKinnon's single claim on human rights is his Aspergers. Strangely he didn't have this at his first hearing, or his second, or his first appeal. Two weeks later he did suddenly have it though.
And what if he did get a harsh sentance? And? WHat his crime doesn't deserve it? He knew exactly what the score was.
I don;t hear the same argument when it's kiddy fiddling or murder 'Oh but he might get a really harsh sentance'.
He isn't going to get capital, therefore the extradition stands.
The UK - US extradition agreement has to be looked into, discussed and implemented. Agreed. But not with this hacking cunt as an example.
Aye to K&D. Spot on.
Jesus Boaty, keep your hair on. :o)
The article made it sound like absolutely no other fucker had dared to hold this point of view before now and I was just pointing out that several people (including myself) have held this point of view for ages.
Does it invalidate your whole weltsanschauung because other people have said this? Even though their penises (penii?) aren't quite as imposing as your own?
"Tell me Obo, are you sucking him off?"
No more than you suck me off.
I'm curious why you are so churlish about other people's blogrolls. Surely people can put whoever they like on their own blogrolls without the approval of the Libertarian demi-gods?
I've had a full-on Marxist in my blogroll for years, but I don't hear you banging on about that. Is it because he's lower in the Wikio rankings (or whatever) than you are?
Ah bless, are you fwends? Are you bwest fwends? Ah, bwest fwends togwether, ahhhhhh.
Obo, i don't give a shit, You just have nothing to say other than 'ohohohohoh, my fwend HArris has already said tis and ohohohoh oooooooooh I thought this ages ago so boo to you', great comment, great.
You've thought it for ages, well fucking bully for you, round of applause everyone. Fuck sake. 'Well, yes, of course moi has been saying this for yonks', and?. And no, the article doesn't make it sound like no one else has said it, one sentence says it at the start in my usual giant cock waving tradition. Of course other people have fucking said it.
Blog roll bog roll, bothered. Just funny how your man love for Harris manifests itself in you bouncing round the fucking internet talking about how blinding he is (when he isn't).
'Oh but Sir, HARRIS said it first and I've thought it for ages.
Can someone get Obo a fucking medal.
it's a bit odd though isn't it cos when you want free speech many bloggers are happy to know their stuff is hosted offshore aren't they. so if the u.s of a and the u.k had some kind of agreement would u.k bloggers be happy to shipped off to the good old u s of a i wonder if someone over there decides to bring a lawsuit? i don't think so, i really don't.
i also think, having read what you've written, that you really don't know what aspergers is, why it's considered a continuum of autism and why such a late diagnoses of aspergers is actually not that unusual. iow you're, on this subject, quite patently clueless.
A big like you can't type.
I know exactly what it is thatnk you, but no, strangely I don't have a fucking phd in it. Much like you.
"A big like you can't type."
The ironing is delicious.
"Ah bless, are you fwends?"
No. I think Harris is a mendacious thief and a man of Blairite principles, i.e. none.
Having said that, he is one of the few Labour bloggers who ventures off-message and he will actually "engage" with his commentards, unlike, for example, Kerry McCarthy. He's also one of the very few Labour twitterers that doesn't sound like an IngSoc autobot.
Yes, he frequently posts bollocks, but every now and then he posts a really good blog post and he can turn a phrase. He is in my blogroll for much the same reason you two spazmongs are. :o)
kevin, are you going to be a spelling and grammar twat now ?
mind you, i've re-read the comments and did not know this bit,
'Strangely he didn't have this at his first hearing, or his second, or his first appeal. Two weeks later he did suddenly have it though.'
i really didn't know that, thought he'd had that dx for ages. i'm not really sure what difference it makes though., it's not like you can develop aspergers retroactively. i know if my son had done similar he would have no clue what he had actually done, he would have no understanding of the crime or implications or anything.
' I don't have a fucking phd in it. Much like you.''
and oh yes i too don't have one of them little bit of papers which prove i've read this and read that and done whatever it is one needs to do so that if i wave it at you you have to take what i say seriously, you're right, i haven't got one of them. far too much work involved really.
I haven't got a PhD either, but his diagnosis of Asprger's is about as convincing as Pinochet's terminal mental decline (lived for years) and the Libyan patsy's 'less than three months to live cancer' (still alive after 3 months and counting).
I want a symmetric extradition agreement between the UK & USA, but beyond that; send him over. They can decide whether he needs to be in the local Broadmoor, or Dartmoor.
He deliberately set out to damage those systems, anything claimed afterwards regarding Asperger's and UFOs lacks credibility (IMHO).
AT THE TIME he was 'SOLO' on a destructive rampage through (poorly protected, you mongs) defense computer systems - that is criminal behaviour.
He sowed the wind, time he reaped the whirlwind.
p.s.
I lurve the internet, this week I've added two words to my vocabulary
Spazmong and Catastrofuck
(ok, so the second was on "the Thick Of It", but I only watched 'cos of the web)
Ain't education, wherever you find it, marvellous?
gendaeu, i do think he's aspergers, he just looks like he is and i can't explain it beyond that. i don't think he should be extradited, i think he can serve the sentence here, where the crime was committed. i don't know why you advocate a symmetric extradtion agreement between the usa and the uk when their sentencing are so different, if there was more uniformity perhaps so.
i'm a bit reminded of that candian bloke who the americans manged to get extradited for sending cannabis seeds to the us. the sale of such is not illegal in canada but it is in the states so the americans can demand to have someone sent over to them for punishment ? i think such stinks.
and it's very weird this two facedness of ideals we seem to have cos no ones more happier than the brits if the authorities 'fuck up' and lose data, serves them right we all think when it gets in the press, and we're quite happy, really when things are leaked that we shouldn't really know about, we're really quite happy when some bugger manages to get around the system usually and find out 'awful' stuff or not, i used to have the impression that was how we thought we british, it's all fair game if it's not locked down. and i really have no idea why we think it's okay to serve our boys to the yanks when they were stupid enough not to lock their stuff down. i have no doubt that garry mckinnon is an aspergers bloke who had no idea doing what he did would lead to what it did. and, i do actually wonder if he is being made a scapegoat, an example, as a warning to all hackers., don't snoop, don't look too hard.
Mckinnon is one ugly twat!
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