Tuesday, 26 May 2009

The 'English Democrats Party' declares war on Boaty & D

Well, well, well. One finds gutlessness and racism in the most quirky of quarters in our Age of the Internet.

The other day, I did a piece about my thoughts on the political parties standing in my region for the 4 June Euro elections.

Readers will know that this half of B&D appears on the Libertarian Right of the political spectrum. My discussion therefore ended, unsurprisingly, with a note about my indecision on who to vote for, wondering whether UKIP could be a possibility.

Once the piece was published, I continued with other matters and thought no more about it.

It was therefore somewhat of a surprise to check the B&D Battleship computer today, and note that some of our visitors have arrived here from two quite unusual destinations.

I saw we had visitors from a place called 'democracyforum', and visitors from an outfit called 'crossofsaintgeorge'.

Both of these places are right wing discussion forums.

A little more digging, and I saw that the threads from which people were arriving from these forums were both initiated by the same bloke. A chap called Steve Uncles, who I presume to be a figure within the English Democrats Party.

Mr Uncles had in fact 'copy 'n' pasted' my entire article on the June 4 elections (which included a robust and critical discussion of the English Democrats Party) and whacked it on both of these forums, hoping to prod discussion. He stated at the end of each of the reproduced articles (both instances without my permission and with use of profanity deleted out):

"You may like to educate this guy, he clearly does not understand the concept of an English Parliament".
Now, I have no problem with being criticised at all. It's part of democracy, it's part of what a decent Libertarian state of affairs should be. I have no problem with being asked for clarification on what I mean on something.

But it's the gutless way that Mr Uncles has gone about it that pisses me off.

Firstly, he and no-one from his outfit or these forums have come on to my blog as yet to comment or criticise. This is all happening off the radar, on two discussion forums to which I have no affiliation or membership. I have no intention on joining them, because I don't trust them and I consider those places depressing and extremist.

Why have they not the intelligence or wherewithal to come here? Is it because it's far easier to scoff within the safe confines of their own little online realms?

Is it at all good manners to lay into my piece on a third party site, without alerting me to their decision to replicate my piece, and then not even explain there in any detail as to how I was wrong?

I wish it ended there, but it hasn't. You see, one poster decided to respond to Mr Uncles. Not to answer his vaguely valid question and to discuss the piece, but to make a series of inflammatory, racist, alarming and offensive remarks about my person.

I'll reproduce, unedited, that poster's ("cassie's") post from the British Democracy Forum thread on my piece, and let you judge for yourself:

"The indications are that Dimeeteeooo is of Greek national or ethnic origin, assuming he was born here, who presumes to sneer at all things in England! Instead of tolerating such creeps - as we English people have in the past - we should ostracise them, shun 'em, let 'em know we are not going to put up with their bad manners without protest.

After all, if it is really so despicable here, they can always go the land of their forebears and save valuable space here. With luck, they might even enjoy another military junta, which could be more to their sour taste.

Such pieces as Dimeeteeooo's serve to encourage right thinking English folk that something needs to be done to rid us of all those foreigners who do not want to fit in but impose their ideas on us, whether they come from north or west of the borders or from further afield!"


I'll not waste time commenting on the petty insults ('Dimeeteeoo') and get straight to the point. Besides my name, what other evidence is there that indicates my ethnic origin? What has my ethnic origin got to do with anything? The truth is, I am part, second generation, Greek. Born here in fact, and I know no other land nor owe any loyalty to any other land. Particularly (and 'she'd' know this if she read my blog) Greece of the Junta dominated 1970s.

But never mind this - what evidence is there, at all, in my original piece, that shows that I "sneer at all things in England!"

If you can find a smidgen of evidence, please present it to me. I know what the answer to this is. There is no evidence, because I have not sneered at England at all. So 'cassie's' post was, I can only judge, a racist knee jerk reaction to the fact I had criticised the far right, but more importantly because my blogger name is 'Demetriou'.

She then exhorts her following to take up the BNP's mantle of looking for ways to get rid of foreigners like me. Her overtones and undertones are not just offensive, but worrying. Outside of the fact her opinions are vile, aggressive and racist, her words are threatening or at least could be taken as such.

But you see readers, unlike the left in this country, I do not believe the answer is to shut people up. 'cassie' et al deserve their freedom of speech, as much as they wish to destroy mine. They should not be censored.

It is, however, a moral duty and responsibility to challenge attackers like these and meet them head-to-head in political and other discourse.

Their bad manners and offensive racism will, in the minds of rational humans, be figured out in the natural course of events.

What would be needed here, however, is an apology from Mr Uncles, who I believe has acted out of turn on this occasion. It would also be most welcome if we actually sought to question me here, or at least posit some more detail to his own opinion of my piece under this blog.

I'm done for now.

On to less depressing topics soon, readers.

22 comments:

steveshark said...

I've just seen that on the forum that 'cassie' belongs to she/he/it is described as an 'uber member'.
I think that just about says it all...
Incidentally, what is it with all this St George shit?
He was Turkish FFS.

steveshark said...

Incidentally, I've just poked about looking up Uncles and the party he's involved with.
No kidding, John, I feel dirty and contaminated now - as if I need some sort of mental disinfectant.
To call these people scum isn't fair on scum.

John Demetriou said...

Well said, Steve.

I'm glad some common sense has arrived at last to point out some basics and reallign things a bit.

Interesting that you use the word 'contaminated'. That's precisely how I feel when I read BNP-esque ramblings and the musings of the dark-minded and disaffected.

Unlike left wing idiots like Ken Livingstone, I do not believe these people should be muffled or banned, but there is a tawdry duty to argue back and highlight facts adn truths, when dealing with the far Right.

As far as the English Democrats Party goes, I have not sufficient evidence at hand yet to offer an opinion on whether they are far-Right...though I'm sure as time goes along, and I learn more and read more, I'll get a better understanding.

Still waiting for anyone at all, Mr Uncles or no, to come here and properly set out their arguments against my piece.

Apart from his one line sneer, I still don't know where I've allegedly gone wrong.

I may well have to do a piece on the West Lothian question and consititutional change in order to engage in debate with our more intellgent readership - you know, people like yourself who think things through and debate with manners.

regards

John

John Demetriou said...

A little research goes a long way...

Here's Mr Uncle's Facebook page, which shows that he is South East area Chairman of his party (English Democrats) and he is running for the MEP spot for that region in the Euros.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Steve-Uncles-English-Democrats/34445722644

Quite a big figure in that party then. If he's so principled and passionate about his cause, how come he can't be bothered to come here and explain where I am mistaken on the issues discussed in my previous piece?

I would assert it is laziness and bad manners on his part, to merely copy and paste my piece and shovel it onto a couple of random debate forums without even stating any point of view or disagreement.

So come on then, our Man from Uncles, set out your stall here on Boaty & D, if you are able...

John Demetriou said...

UPDATE:

still no response from the cowards.

Though I've noticed from the British 'Democracy' Forum that 'cassie' has posted another reply on the offending thread, dismissing me as a 'sneering' blogger with 'a foreign name'.

She really is obsessed with this whole racial purity angle is she not?

My primary question: when will anyone properly challenge the points I made in the article, instead of resorting to mindless racism and ad hominem methods?

I'm still waiting, but am growing less hopeful...

steveshark said...

Don't hold your breath, mate.
I've just seen the party political broadcast from the shower of knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, window-licking cunts that calls itself the BNP.
Don't expect any rational response from the far right - rationality would expose them as the waste of DNA that they really are and then they wouldn't get any votes.

steveshark said...

'Uber' member...
Is this more important than a 'senior' member?
I wonder if the English Democarcy Forum has some sort of initiation ceremony where you have to beat yourself off with a copy of 'Mein Kampf' and then the last one to come gets top posting status?
File under 'sick joke'.

John Demetriou said...

English Democ-farce-y Forum more like. I've not seen such low grade 'debate' anywhere on the internet since I ventured on 'yahoo! chat' as a teenager.

Mr Uncles has responded on my initial article it seems - though totally misses the point. Quelle Surprise.

John Demetriou said...

UPDATE # 2

Oh dear!

I've checked up on this British Democracy Forum, and the English Democrat's spokesperson Mr Uncles has reproduced my latest article alongside an aggressive rant against me.

Apparently, he went into politics to fight people like me.

He also accuses me of hating this country, and he lays a charge at my door for labelling anything English as 'right wing'.

He calls me an 'uneducated fool!!' and he states that I 'HATE the very country' that gave me the ability to be critical of it.

OK, I'll ask this one last time:

1) Where, anywhere at all, have I stated or provided any view that would give the impression that I hate England?

If, because I oppose EDP policies or am critical of them, that equates to me 'hating' England, then I am clearly dealing with idiots or madmen.

2) Where have I said anything that has run England down? Any evidence would be gratefully received. I still have yet to be notified of any evidence in this regard.

3) Where have I labelled 'anything English as right wing'? Again, any evidence gratefully received. I have yet to be shown any. This is because there is none.

4) Can anyone - and I mean anyone - tell me why Mr Uncles and the BDF poster 'cassie' appear to think that I am some foreign ingrate who abuses British tolerance and freedoms?

Firstly, I am British and born here, and secondly, I fail to see how I have abused anything or anyone English or British.

If, by criticising a political party on their political party manifesto, I have committed treason, then I have obviously woken up in an alternative reality.

I think it's obvious that this tin pot outfit and its leading member Mr Uncles are quite out of their depth. Mr Uncles has embarassed himself and his party with his rude, abusive, incoherent behaviour.

If this is the best he can offer, then the rational and intelligent voters of the South East region will have a slightly easier job come voting day, because I can't see EDP offering anything at all worth looking at.

Mr Rob said...

Well John, the day has finally come when I have learned something from the occasional glance at your blog.

The original argument itself is of no consequence to me, but I trotted off to have a look at these "English Democrats" in blogging action. I have carefully read through their posts, considered their arguments, noted the language in which they express themselves, and have concluded that...

they are a bunch of cunts.

Aside from their hilarious ranking system, new members, uber members etc...what cunts...how about "complete member" for obersturmbannfuehrer Uncles? what's with the indignation from "cassie" that someone who dares to criticise them has a foreign name?

Thanks, this has saved me from further consideration of this shower of shit as worthy recipients of my Daily Mail-reading Right-wing vote.

Cunts....

John Demetriou said...

Ta for dropping by Mr Rob.

Just checked up on your little venture on 'democracyforum'. Mighty brave of you I might add!

With every public venture this 'Uncles' makes into the online arena of 'discussion', I am making more and more of my mind up about both he and his tawdry, horrid little party.

I find it staggering that a human, much less a candidate for the European Elections, is actually capable of being this dim and unresponsive.

His knee jerk posts in reply to anyone critical (in this case you and I) are so mind bogglingly bizarre, it makes one wonder in amazement at how politics is dominated by such weirdos.

I've noted with interest that the minority parties are getting quite excitable and ego-driven, what with all the news about a collapse in confidence in Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems.

Maybe there's a case for taking the fight to these little tin pot outfits. Because while their heads swell and while people out there are looking to protest vote, people like me need to come along to prick a few bubbles.

A bad protest vote, in my view, is arguably worse than voting for one of the three main parties who continue to fail the electorate.

At least none of the three main parties want to boot people out of the country or slag them off arbitrarily simply because they might have foreign names.

Well worth noting that Mr Uncles did nothing to chide or challenge 'cassie's' abusive, racist posting.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions there.

aljahom said...

This is why I abandoned forums and moved to a blog.

If I want a rag-bag of non-sequiturs, I'll provide my own, ta very much...

Even the established people on that forum who speak some reason seem to be castigated. And where did Vicky Pollard (logging in as 'cassie') copy & paste that text from? The first post marked her out as an imbecile of the highest order.

Everyone knows that there are much better ways of insult you Greek cunts. Seat of modern civilisation? Invented chair. Sat in it for 3000 years.

Genius.

AJ

SteveShark said...

OK, I've posted there now.
Couldn't resist it.

John Demetriou said...

Nicely done.

Prepare to be assailed by an incomprehensible, semi-literate, garbled knee jerk response with at least one word written in Caps Lock for full effect.

And to think I raised a slight eyebrow in interest at their party when I saw in written on the notice board of parties standing in the Euros.

No fucking way jose.

steveshark said...

Pah!
Mere amateurs after the death threats I once had from a bunch of far-right US X-tian nutters...

AngryMatt said...

FYI John - you've got a prima facie claim for copyright infringement for use of your literary work without a licence. Just in case you feel like throwing that in there...

John Demetriou said...

Thank you Matt, appreciate the comment. This did occur to me, though for now, I'll let things simmer and see what happens.

I think the outfits currently under the spotlight are so meaningless and irrelevant that to waste my breath on them is insulting to me, Mr Boatang (co-blog author) and you our readership.

I should note here, as I'm sure all you sensible readers of ours have realised, that I have not once fallen into my attackers' trap of getting me to make this a discussion about race and Englishness. I have not launched into a slanging match. I have maintained pressure on certain individuals to answer my questions and to point out exactly where I was wrong in the piece.

All they come back with is deranged insults, such as calling me 'racist'. Which is totally and utterly bizarre.

That a major figure in a politcal party cannot step back from emotion and critically analyse a basic argument and come back with a reasoned response is almost terrifying.

But then their outfit is total shite and it won't get more than a single percentage point in the election.

Oooh, it's been hard, biting my tongue and not releasing the Demetriou Hounds, I tell you.

Paul said...

The real tragedy here is that the English Democrats, at least in theory, are actually not a far-right party. At least when they began life, they intended, as far as I can see (I have no connection with them) to provide platform for everyone who wanted to see political change in England, regardless of their race etc. Their main bone of contention is democracy in England, which I agree is in a parlous state.

As time has passed, however, it's become pretty clear that Uncles and a few of the party's other top bods are pretty unpleasant characters and, if not racists themselves, are quite content to associate with racists openly if they think it will help their cause. They seem to be failing pretty stunningly, and it serves them right.

Meanwhile, England is still waiting for a decent, intelligent political party to represent its interests.

john lilburn said...

An analogy:

-----------------------

Dear English Football Association

As a representative of the Scottish Football Association, I would like to inform you that we wish to change the way the English Football team is managed to bring it more in line with the way our Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, is running Britain.

This will involve the following:

1. The Manager of the Scottish team is allowed to be involved with the running of the English team. However, the manager of the English team should have no say whatsoever in the running of the Scottish team. This shall be known as the West Lothian Question.

2. A sizable proportion of any money the English Football Association raises from, say sponsorship or crowd takings, shall be given to the Scottish Football Association, regardless as to whether you need it or not. This does not apply the other way round. This is known as the Barnett Formula.

3. You are not to call yourself England any longer. You will now be known as the British Regions. We, on the other hand, are still to be known as Scotland, “a proud and noble nation”.

4. Medical treatment to your players will be limited to a few treatments because of cost. No such stringent limitation applies to Scotland.

5. If your playing surfaces are flooded, then do not expect much assistance. However, Scottish pitches will be adequately provided for in the event of flooding.

6. From this moment on, the English Football Association will cease to exist. However, the Scottish Football Association will be allowed to continue to work independently.

A failure to follow these rules will see you branded as arrogant, selfish and unfair.

I’m sure you will find this to your satisfaction. After all, you seem to be happy with this state of affairs with your political system, so why not your Football team?

Yours sincerely

Mr G Brown.

PS You English are so naïve, you are being abolished and don’t even realise it.

Ref: http://www.thecep.org.uk

John Demetriou said...

See my latest article which adequately explains my position on the West Lothian question.

Anonymous said...

steveshark said...
"I've just seen that on the forum that 'cassie' belongs to she/he/it is described as an 'uber member'.
I think that just about says it all..."

Says it all? What do you mean, "says it all"? Yes, because she used uber. Oh gawd blimey! Uber is such a naughty word to be using on the internet. It should be banned immediately. How dare anyone use the word uber! Of course the point is how dare anyone say anything without first consulting the self-appointed nonces known as boatang and dimetriou. A bigger pair of supposed eurolander/new labour self-rightous loony lefties ive yet to see. Well done ladies!

Steve:
"Incidentally, what is it with all this St George shit?
He was Turkish FFS."

St George wasn't Turkish at all. Abound 1200 BC, the west coast of Anatolia was settled by Aeolian and Ionian GREEKS. It was then conquered by the PERSIAN Achaemenid Empire during the 6th and 5th centuries BC. It was subsequently divided into a number of small kingdoms. All of these succumbed to ROME by the mid-1st century BCE. In 324 CE, the Roman emperor Constantine I chose BYZANTIUM to be the new capital of the Roman Empire. After the fall of the Western Roman Empire, it became the capital of the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire. "Turkey" wasn't inhabited by the Seljuks until after the ninth century. St George had been dead almost 600 years by then. So, how was he Turkish? He wasn't!
If there's one thing I can't stand it's an arrogant tool without a functioning brain. I mean be a cocky twat if you like; honestly, be a knowledgable cocky twat, not a pig-ignorant one. You only end up looking idiotic. Plus, people laugh at you. People like me. Aha! ha! ha! ha! I aint had such a good laugh in ages.

Steve Hayes said...

Not censored but censured, which you did rather well.

But I've just read a blog that refers to the BNP as "Far-Left". It looks like some voter education is needed in Britain, and some people may have voted for the wrong party.